There used to be plenty of lively discussion on the various radio forums, but over the past year or two there has been a noticeable decline, whether in the number of people taking part or the overall standard of debate.
Media UK’s traffic for its discussion area has fallen quite noticeably over the past 12 months, although the directory area continues to thrive. The former 'UK Onair' (nee 'UK Radio') site closed a couple of years ago following a decline in traffic. Digital Spy still seems busy, but it becomes increasingly necessary to wade through a vast amount of uninformed or just plain nasty, vitriolic garbage, or posts by ‘trolls’, and terminally-sad dysfunctional obsessives in order to find anything resembling decent debate. Even when you do find the occasional gem it invariably soon gets trashed by cretinous comments made by someone who either comes across as a 12 year old, or who is hiding behind an alias in order to pretend to be more important/experienced than they really are, or use that anonymity to make nasty, sniping comments about people. Alternatively you find people whose viewpoint is "I don't like it. It's not aimed at me so it's got to be changed or scrapped".
So what are the likely causes for this situation?
It has been suggested Media UK’s introduction of a ‘real names policy’ may have been the reason for that site’s decline. As this took place more than six years ago and there was plenty of good discussion for several years after the change – and currently has more than 12,000 members (at the time of writing) - this is not really a valid reason. It is interesting, though, that despite this large number of registered members only a very tiny percentage ever actually post and a slightly larger number prefer to 'lurk'.
I know many former Media UK ‘regulars’ who rarely bother going there now. They say it’s because there's much less discussion these days and what there is tends to be the same few people posting, with threads often being started – or pulled off-topic – for reasons of pedantry, which they find off-putting. Interestingly I notice I haven’t posted in the main forum myself for more than a month now (and very rarely, post on Digital Spy anyway).
Maybe it’s also because most of the usual topics – networking, automation, consolidation, DAB bitrates etc. – have now been done to death. Maybe it’s because there are fewer people working in radio, although there are still many people who are interested in radio and the new challenges facing the industry today. Maybe it’s because those who would normally wish to participate are now either too busy to do so or just can’t be bothered anymore.
Maybe it’s simply because we’re simply seeing a gradual evolution away from forums and I believe the rise in social networking sites and blogs is a major contributing factor in this.
Ten years ago the ‘uk-radio mailing list’ (remember that?) was THE place for lively, and usually well-reasoned and good-natured, debate on radio matters. The arrival of forum-based, rather than email-based, methods of discussion eventually led to the demise of the mailing list as most members changed their allegiances.
Today, in much the same way, many of the people who used to make some very good posts on Media UK and/or Digital Spy are now blogging instead. Personally I prefer sharing my thoughts this way these days and this blog links to several of them, as well as those by a few others whose blogs I like.
Global Radio's Nick Piggott made an interesting observation in his own blog earlier this year. Nick does a lot of business travel and tends to write about airlines and digital radio/new media in almost equal measures. While commenting on airline users' forums he wrote the following:
“... no matter how irate, heated or insulting the conversations on-line become, rarely does anyone attack the airline/airport rep. Indeed, the community will often turn savagely on those who start having a go at the rep. And it’s interesting because that’s often not the case when radio gets discussed on-line; in those situations, often the poor radio person who sticks his head in the door will get it torn off and thrown back at them. It’s a shame, because it means that it’s that much harder for the people who are passionate about radio to have a decent engagement with those people who are making radio. I don’t know how to change that.”
That’s something with which I can readily identify and it is probably the main reason why many former forum regulars no longer bother posting. It just becomes tiresome trying to have a sensible debate with someone who is not prepared to accept an opposing point of view to themselves or is unwilling to enter into a proper discussion.
It is a shame, though.
Media UK’s traffic for its discussion area has fallen quite noticeably over the past 12 months, although the directory area continues to thrive. The former 'UK Onair' (nee 'UK Radio') site closed a couple of years ago following a decline in traffic. Digital Spy still seems busy, but it becomes increasingly necessary to wade through a vast amount of uninformed or just plain nasty, vitriolic garbage, or posts by ‘trolls’, and terminally-sad dysfunctional obsessives in order to find anything resembling decent debate. Even when you do find the occasional gem it invariably soon gets trashed by cretinous comments made by someone who either comes across as a 12 year old, or who is hiding behind an alias in order to pretend to be more important/experienced than they really are, or use that anonymity to make nasty, sniping comments about people. Alternatively you find people whose viewpoint is "I don't like it. It's not aimed at me so it's got to be changed or scrapped".
So what are the likely causes for this situation?
It has been suggested Media UK’s introduction of a ‘real names policy’ may have been the reason for that site’s decline. As this took place more than six years ago and there was plenty of good discussion for several years after the change – and currently has more than 12,000 members (at the time of writing) - this is not really a valid reason. It is interesting, though, that despite this large number of registered members only a very tiny percentage ever actually post and a slightly larger number prefer to 'lurk'.
I know many former Media UK ‘regulars’ who rarely bother going there now. They say it’s because there's much less discussion these days and what there is tends to be the same few people posting, with threads often being started – or pulled off-topic – for reasons of pedantry, which they find off-putting. Interestingly I notice I haven’t posted in the main forum myself for more than a month now (and very rarely, post on Digital Spy anyway).
Maybe it’s also because most of the usual topics – networking, automation, consolidation, DAB bitrates etc. – have now been done to death. Maybe it’s because there are fewer people working in radio, although there are still many people who are interested in radio and the new challenges facing the industry today. Maybe it’s because those who would normally wish to participate are now either too busy to do so or just can’t be bothered anymore.
Maybe it’s simply because we’re simply seeing a gradual evolution away from forums and I believe the rise in social networking sites and blogs is a major contributing factor in this.
Ten years ago the ‘uk-radio mailing list’ (remember that?) was THE place for lively, and usually well-reasoned and good-natured, debate on radio matters. The arrival of forum-based, rather than email-based, methods of discussion eventually led to the demise of the mailing list as most members changed their allegiances.
Today, in much the same way, many of the people who used to make some very good posts on Media UK and/or Digital Spy are now blogging instead. Personally I prefer sharing my thoughts this way these days and this blog links to several of them, as well as those by a few others whose blogs I like.
Global Radio's Nick Piggott made an interesting observation in his own blog earlier this year. Nick does a lot of business travel and tends to write about airlines and digital radio/new media in almost equal measures. While commenting on airline users' forums he wrote the following:
“... no matter how irate, heated or insulting the conversations on-line become, rarely does anyone attack the airline/airport rep. Indeed, the community will often turn savagely on those who start having a go at the rep. And it’s interesting because that’s often not the case when radio gets discussed on-line; in those situations, often the poor radio person who sticks his head in the door will get it torn off and thrown back at them. It’s a shame, because it means that it’s that much harder for the people who are passionate about radio to have a decent engagement with those people who are making radio. I don’t know how to change that.”
That’s something with which I can readily identify and it is probably the main reason why many former forum regulars no longer bother posting. It just becomes tiresome trying to have a sensible debate with someone who is not prepared to accept an opposing point of view to themselves or is unwilling to enter into a proper discussion.
It is a shame, though.
I used to be an avid reader/contributor to the forums Paul mentions, and tend to shy away from them now because there's so much bile about. Every third thread on Digital Spy ends up as an attack on the BBC/Licence Fee (although nobody ever spells 'licence' correctly) and even quiet backwaters like the TV Forum (mostly populated by presentation anoraks) have got the BBC-Bashing-bug now.
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is the disproportionate number of postings from bitter people - I suspect many have suffered multiple rejection - and knowalls or pedants. Cut these away and there might still be worthwhile debate - but there's so much of it it's hardly worth the bother.
I tend to lurk on nice, comfortably, happy sites where people are courteous and pleasant. But they are few and far between!
I have to agree with Paul and Tony here. I'm a long-time poster on Media UK, Digital Spy and the old UK On Air site but find myself bothering to visit less and less. The sites just seem so repetitive; very little in the way of actual discussion takes place, it's just the endless ramblings of people fed up that Heart has appeared on their local station, or that their community station rejected their show idea, or that their DAB bitrate is slightly too low. And Paul is right - especially on Digital Spy, there are some very odd people posting with very poor English and little grasp on logic who I'd hazard a guess have some sort of special need.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm not sure whether it's possible to characterise all forum users as bitter radio industry rejects. There are certainly a few, but you can spot them a mile off. I'm involved voluntarily in community radio locally but harbour no ambition to get into the commercial radio industry (why would you these days?). However, I still take an interest in industry matters and try to keep up to date with radio.
Now, more than ever, there's a place for meaningful, intelligent discussion of the industry and its future. But the current sites aren't catering for that. Digital Spy is vitriolic and populated by social oddities and Media UK is boring because no one wants to have a real debate under their real name with their boss reading.
Digital Spy could be so much better if they moderated the radio section properly, but as the radio section is only a tiny part of a massive forum covering various subjects, they're not going to use their resources to block a particular Radio 2 'fan' who uses the forum to abuse their older presenters and format.
ReplyDeleteI share the sentiments about Media UK and Digital Spy otherwise. There is also Radio Today's forum which only seems busy discussing Northern England stations.
There's a reason for the Northern England focus on Radio Today. Years ago, there was a forum site called North West Radio - this closed down and users were redirected to Radio Today's site. While it's very popular for news, its forum doesn't tend to attract too much traffic for some reason - but the North West Radio people remain there.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the answer is a site which verifies users' identity privately before allowing them to post, but allows them to post under a pseudonym to avoid the chilling effect of real-names (ie. "better watch what I say, the boss / a potential employer / my mum is reading this").
Only people with a genuine connection to radio would be allowed to read or post, whether they're working full-time for a station or just volunteering on community or hospital radio. It'd filter out the complete anoraks with no real industry connection. I don't know - the last thing the world needs is another radio forum - but it might be an idea to try out.
Certainly Blogging seems to be the way to go to express opinons on radio.Many people will remember Howard Rose's ramblings in the Radio Magazine, one of the forerunners of blogging on radio... certainly many of the points proved unpopular with many in the British radio industry, but of course Howard like many had a large amount of international experience, and of course a lifelong interest in radio. and he had an opinon rather than a company line on things...
ReplyDeleteHaving an opinon is good as long as you realise someone might have a differing opinon it's called debate...
Sadly many of the forums Paul mentions are based in Britain so tend to discuss British radio in the main,and don't really discuss international radio..being based in Europe it has little or no interest for me...or it must be said for many others...
Much of today's British Commercial radio is done in a bubble with little or any regards for radio trends elsewhere...hence the drop in listening, the people commercial radio really want to switch on to are either listening to their Ipods or internet radio or BBC Radio 1
The mature audience are listening to BBC Radio 2, rather than the Bland AM etc, with someone young enough to be their son or daughter telling them the latest goss from the BB house...as if they watch it..misreading your audience always a classic mistake...
coming back on topic:) why aren't forums about radio interesting anymore, basically because the people at the top of commerical radio have little or no interest getting involved with the people who listen to their station and might be able to offer some advice on how to improve it, or people from within the industry or outside who can help too...radio is about communication isn't about time Britain radio industry communicated properly with itself and the outside world?
I remember years ago, before Media UK's real name policy, it was a great place to learn behind the scenes stuff and pick up hints and tips on various aspects of working in radio.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I learned a lot about what I know now from the users on Media UK.
The real name policy is great, in that it does reduce use by annoying little ******s, but it also removed a layer of protection from a lot of anonymous users, who were not annoying, but just wanted to post great information, without any risk of employers reading something they didn't like.
Of course, it's also the case that there isn't much to talk about anymore, the majority of the people still working in radio work for the same company, one the 'same' stations. Networking has obviously won the day, and there's fewer and fewer oppertunities for new-comers to the industry that need to learn from experience.
It's sad in a way, the Media UK forums used to be a great source of info, entertainment and nice people.
I agree the type and tone of postings on Digital Spy are often nasty and vicious and the worst culprits are a few (alleged) employees from the UK commercial radio industry. A good debating forum is needed.
ReplyDelete